Appearance before the Standing Committee on Public Accounts of Canada: Auditor General Report on the Investing in Canada Plan. Indigenous Services Canada. June 16, 2022

Logistics

Date: Thursday, June 16, 2022
Time: 11:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Location: Videoconference (Zoom)
Subject: Follow-up Study on Report 9, Investing in Canada Plan

Witnesses from Indigenous Services Canada (ISC)

1. Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister
2. Rory O'Connor, Director General, Regional infrastructure Delivery Branch, Regional Operations Sector

Witnesses from Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation

1. Romy Bowers, President and Chief Executive Officer

Witnesses from the Office of Infrastructure Canada

1. Kelly Gillis, Deputy Minister
2. Sean Kennan, TBC.
3. Gerard Peets, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy and Results Branch

Witnesses from the Privy Council Office

1. Laurie Goldmann, Director of Operations, Result and Delivery Unit

Witnesses from Treasury Board Secretariat

1. Ritu Banerjee, Executive Director, Results Division, Expenditure Management Sector

Office of the Auditor General of Canada

1. Karen Hogan, Auditor General of Canada
2. Gabriel Lombardi, Director, Performance Audit

Context

On May 11, 2021, the Committee undertook a study of Report 9, Investing in Canada Plan, of the 2021 reports of the Auditor General of Canada (Annex A). The study consisted of one meeting, and heard from officials at Indigenous Services Canada, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the Office of Infrastructure Canada, the Privy Council Office, the Treasury Board Secretariat, and the Office of the Auditor General of Canada. This study would become the Committee's 22nd report of the 43rd Parliament, tabled in the House of Commons in June 2021. While a government response to the report was requested, that request was considered to have died on the Order Paper when Parliament was dissolved for the 44th General Election.

On February 3, 2022, the Committee adopted a motion to deem the 22nd report of the committee in the 2nd session of the 43rd Parliament, "Investing in Canada Plan", a report adopted by the committee in the 44th Parliament, and that the government table a comprehensive response to the report. That government response was presented to the House of Commons on June 7, 2022 (Annex B).

On May 10, 2022, the Committee adopted a motion to undertake this follow-up study on Report 9, Investing in Canada Plan of the 2021 Reports 6 to 9 of the Auditor General of Canada, referred to the committee on March 25, 2021.

Background on the study

The Auditor General's Report contained one recommendation:

• To improve monitoring, tracking, and reporting on progress toward the Investing in Canada Plan's objectives, Infrastructure Canada should work with its federal partner organizations in the plan and with central agencies to determine:
  • How to better measure projects' progress toward the plan's objectives
  • Which legacy programs are meant to contribute to the plan's objectives and how to report on them
  • What information the department needs from federal partner organizations to provide public reporting on the plan that is consistent, comprehensive, and easy to understand

The Office of Infrastructure Canada agreed with the recommendation, stating:

• Infrastructure Canada will continue to engage with its federal partner organizations in the Investing in Canada Plan and central agencies to:
  • Better measure and report on progress toward the outcomes and objectives of the plan, incorporating data demonstrating the impact of these investments as it becomes available
  • Clarify and improve reporting on the contributions of legacy programs toward the objectives of the plan
• As part of its ongoing commitment to provide consistent, comprehensive, and easy-to-understand public reporting on the plan, Infrastructure Canada will engage with its delivery partners on data automation for public progress reporting, building on lessons learned from existing horizontal automated reporting processes.

The Committee's report contained two recommendations:

• That, by 31 January 2022, Infrastructure Canada provide the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts with a report outlining its progress on
  • the improved assessment and reporting of progress toward the outcomes and objectives of the plan, incorporating data demonstrating the impact of these investments as it becomes available; and,
  • clarifying and improving reporting on the contributions of legacy programs toward the plan's objectives.
• That, by 31 January 2022, Infrastructure Canada provide the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts with a report outlining its progress on engaging with its delivery partners on data automation for public progress reporting.

During the Committee's meeting on May 11, 2021, DM Fox received questions on the following topics:

• Tracking "legacy" programs,
• If the reporting mechanisms employed for addressing boil water advisories would be emulated in financial reporting,
• To clarify the difference between making reporting more robust, while reducing reporting, and;
• Breaking down the difference in infrastructure spending between capital and operating costs.

Context on the members

MP John Williamson (CPC), the Chair of the committee, has been vocal in the House of Commons over the last few months regarding the high cost of gas and calling on the government to eliminate the carbon tax and reduce taxes on fuel.

MP Jean Yip (Lib), committee Co-Chair, has asked officials questions regarding improving GBA+ analysis, and during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox what could be done in the future to help vulnerable groups if there another crisis.

MP Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné (BQ), committee Co-Chair, has asked questions regarding discrepancies between the treatment of French and English in government services, systemic discrimination, GBA+ analysis, and during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox about stockpile replenishment and timelines for the new plan to be developed.

MP Valerie Bradford (Lib), during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox about recruiting healthcare workers in isolated communities, the potential use of video consultation in health services, and how to best address fatigue and burn-out amongst healthcare practitioners in these communities.

MP Richard Bragdon (CPC) has asked questions regarding a "just transition" for energy workers and the effectiveness of the carbon tax. He is also a member of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources (RNNR) and has not asked a question at PACP since February 15, 2022.

MP Blake Desjarlais (NDP), has asked questions regarding the relationship between the provincial government, federal government, and the Métis settlements, and; during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox about engaging with First Nation communities on nurse staffing, working with the Nursing Leadership Council, PPE procurement, and isolation units.

MP Han Dong (Lib), during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox about the stockpiling of PPE and departmental readiness.

MP Eric Duncan (CPC), during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox about healthcare staff shortages both pre- and during the pandemic; the details of contracts, advertising and promotion of positions, and; the demographics of healthcare workers that go to Indigenous communities.

MP Peter Fragiskatos (Lib), during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox about how the department planned to engage with the 51 First Nations, and how "best practices" are defined by the department.

MP Jeremy Patzer (CPC), during the committee's study of Report 11, Health Resources for Indigenous Communities, asked DM Fox a series of questions on the monetary value of the 2% of bulk purchases provided to Indigenous Services Canada. He additionally asked about PPE stockpiles and allocation across the country, and airline costs for chartered dedicated air services.

MP Brenda Shanahan (Lib), has asked about gender-based violence and procurement of PPE for urban reserves.

Meeting proceedings

The meeting is scheduled to occur from 11:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m., on Thursday, June 16, 2022, via the web platform Zoom.

All witnesses will be asked to connect to the meeting at 10:30 a.m. The Zoom link will be sent directly from the House of Commons to the witnesses.

The Chair will open the meeting and provide instructions for the meeting proceedings. He will then introduce all witnesses. It is recommended to speak slowly and at an appropriate level to ensure the interpreters can hear you. All witnesses are requested to mute your microphone when you are not speaking.

While simultaneous translation will be available, witnesses are asked to respond to questions in either language but to limit switching back and forth between languages as this often creates technology/interpretation challenges. It is recommended to deliver the speech in one official language.

Following the opening remarks (5 minutes) provided by ISC, Infrastructure Canada, CMHC, and Auditor General, there will be rounds of questions from Committee members (as listed below).

Committee members will pose their questions in the following order:

• First round (6 minutes for each Party)
  • Conservative Party of Canada
  • Liberal Party of Canada
  • Bloc Québécois
  • New Democratic Party of Canada
• Second and subsequent rounds, the order and time for questioning be as follows
  • Conservative Party of Canada (5 minutes)
  • Liberal Party of Canada (5 minutes)
  • Bloc Québécois (2.5 minutes)
  • New Democratic Party of Canada (2.5 minutes)
  • Conservative Party of Canada (5 minutes)
  • Liberal Party of Canada (5 minutes)

The meeting can be watched via Parlvu, however there is a 70-second delay: https://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Harmony.

Teleconference access may be possible and will be confirmed with support staff closer to the appearance date.

Opening Remarks for Deputy Minister Christiane Fox
Indigenous Services Canada

Appearance before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Public Accounts (PACP)

Follow-up study of Report 9—Investing in Canada Plan, of the 2021 Reports of the Auditor General of Canada

June 16, 2022

Kwe kwe, Ullukkut [Ood-loo-koot], Tansi, hello, bonjour!

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that I am speaking from the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinaabeg people.

Today I am joined by Rory O'Connor, Director General of the Regional Infrastructure Delivery Branch at ISC.

I will be providing an update to the Committee on how Indigenous Services Canada has contributed to the action plan to address the Auditor General of Canada's recommendations in Report 9—Investing in Canada Plan (IICP).

Since 2016, ISC has committed $6.67 billion in targeted infrastructure funding until 2027-28 under the IICP and, as of December 31, 2021, invested $3.92 billion. These investments represent 59% of the ISC commitment under the Investing in Canada Plan resulting in 5,271 projects supporting First Nations communities.

This includes supporting housing and health-related infrastructure, foundational infrastructure like roads and bridges, broadband connectivity, cultural and recreational facilities on reserves; and improving water and wastewater infrastructure.

We agree with the findings and recommendations of the Auditor General that steps needed to be taken to improve monitoring, tracking, and reporting on progress toward the Investing in Canada Plan's objectives.

The first action relates to reviewing measures for progress on the plan's outcomes and objectives.

We have actively participated on inter-departmental committees and supported the development of horizontal initiatives that link to our departmental priorities and results framework while meeting the priorities and objectives of the IICP.

For example, in 2020–21, ISC provided funding to explore, design and plan housing and infrastructure service delivery models that reflect the distinct needs, cultural realities, priorities and aspirations of First Nations.

Investments in infrastructure will help bridge the infrastructure gap between First Nations and the rest of Canada and positively impact all members of the community.

The second action concerns incorporating legacy programs into Horizontal Initiative Tables.

To offer some background: ISC's funding under the IICP includes approximately $14.6B over 12 years in legacy funding. This is funding for programs that were established prior to Budget 2016 and continued thereafter.

For ISC, this legacy funding forms part of the department A-Base for infrastructure, roughly $1 billion annually. These funds are allocated directly to First Nations, including those communities who fall under 10-year grant provisions, or block funding agreements, to manage within their authorities.

A-base funding is used to support community-level investments such as utility bills and operations and maintenance of facilities on reserves.

We committed to providing program-level reporting on legacy programs that are largely A-base funded. To be clear, program-level reporting does not contain project-specific data. The Department does not support increasing reporting requirements for infrastructure legacy funds, as these funds are distributed to First Nations for the management of their communities as a whole, not just for infrastructure projects.

Imposing additional reporting burdens on First Nations communities challenges the Government of Canada's commitment to reconciliation with Indigenous Peoples, and the autonomy and self-determination of First Nations.

The third and final action identified in the Management Action Plan concerns improving public reporting on the plan that is consistent, comprehensive, and easy to understand.

ISC currently reports project-level data on all targeted infrastructure investments, including the IICP. We do this on our public-facing interactive project map.

In response to this action, we have updated our project map to identify projects that have received IICP funds. And to note once again, this does not include Legacy Program information.

We want to make sure that reporting requirements, methodology and program delivery reflect the evolving relationship between the Government of Canada and First Nations.

I welcome your questions. Thank you.

Key messages

• Through the Investing in Canada Plan, launched in 2016, the Government of Canada committed more than $180 billion over 12 years for infrastructure that benefits Canadians – from public transit to trading ports, broadband networks to energy systems, community services to natural spaces.
• The Investing in Canada Plan is designed to achieve three objectives:
  • long-term economic growth to build a stronger middle class;
  • support the resilience of communities and transition to a clean growth economy; and
  • build social inclusion and socio-economic outcomes for everyone living in Canada.

Background

• Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) is one of 20 federal departments and agencies responsible for delivering programs and funding to address infrastructure challenges and opportunities facing communities across the country.
• Since Budget 2016, ISC has received more than $6.98 billion of targeted funding under the Investing in Canada Plan.
• As of December 31, 2021, $3.92 billion has been invested, excluding operating expenses. These investments fall under the Plan's themes of green and social infrastructure.
• ISC's funding under the Investing in Canada Plan also includes approximately $14 billion over 12 years in legacy funding. This funding was established prior to Budget 2016 and is allocated directly to First Nations communities for operation and maintenance activities.
• These investments are already having a positive effect on quality of life and education, overcrowding in housing and schools, sanitation and clean drinking water, health care facilities, connectivity, and energy systems on reserve.

Current status

• Investments from the Investing in Canada Plan are being delivered through programs administered by more than 20 federal departments and agencies, and involves working closely with provinces, territories, municipalities and Indigenous Peoples.

Key messages

• In response to the report and Management Action Plan presented to the standing committee on Public Accounts on May 31, 2021, Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) can confirm that its departmental reporting on the Investing in Canada Plan is fully compliant with the recommendations presented by the Office of the Auditor General's report and therefore reflected in the Management Action Plan led by Infrastructure Canada by:
  • Providing input in a new template for Infrastructure Canada's 2022–2023 Departmental Plan on the Investing in Canada Plan.
  • Providing program-level Investing in Canada Plan legacy reporting to Infrastructure Canada.
  • Continuing to submit information and collaborate with Infrastructure Canada to produce reporting products.
  • Additionally, ISC provides a public facing Infrastructure Investment project map that has been updated to indicate projects receiving Investing in Canada Plan funds (not including Legacy funds).

Background

• An Office of the Auditor General audit of the Investing in Canada Plan was completed in 2020 to determine if departments were meeting the Plan's reporting objectives. A March 2021 audit report determined that improvements were needed and made the recommendation that Infrastructure Canada should work with federal partner organizations to determine:
  • How to better measure projects' progress toward the Plan's objectives;
  • Which legacy programs are meant to contribute to the Plan's objectives and how to report on them; and
  • What information the department needs from federal partner organizations to provide public reporting on the plan that is consistent, comprehensive, and easy to understand.

Current status

• ISC remains committed to engaging and working with Infrastructure Canada to provide consistent reporting on the Investing in Canada Plan, while ensuring that funding requirements, methodology and program delivery reflect the evolving relationship between the Government of Canada and First Nations, which requires a flexible approach, particularly for reporting related to legacy funds.

Key messages

• Indigenous Services Canada (ISC) welcomed the recommendation for robust and easy to understand reporting, and supports Infrastructure Canada's objectives by:
  • providing input on reporting materials including Departmental Plans and Horizontal initiatives;
  • providing program-level reporting; and
  • submitting further information and collaborating with Infrastructure Canada to produce reporting products.

Background

• An Office of the Auditor General's audit of the Investing in Canada Plan was completed in 2020 to determine if departments were meeting the Plan's reporting objectives. A March 2021 audit report determined that improvements were needed and made the recommendation that Infrastructure Canada should work with federal partner organizations to determine:
  • How to better measure projects' progress toward the plan's objectives;
  • Which legacy programs are meant to contribute to the Plan's objectives and how to report on them; and
  • What information the department needs from federal partner organizations to provide public reporting on the plan that is consistent, comprehensive, and easy to understand
• In response to the recommendation presented through the Office of the Auditor General's audit report tabled in March 2021, Infrastructure Canada's Deputy Minister submitted a Management Action Plan with three main objectives:
  • A review of reporting framework and performance indicators to better measure and report on progress toward the outcomes and objectives of the Plan.
  • Integration of legacy programs into the Plan's Horizontal Initiatives Table to clarify and improve reporting on the contributions of legacy programs toward the objectives of the Plan.
  • Improve public reporting to ensure that consistent, comprehensive and easy-to-understand information on the Plan is publicly available.

Current status

• ISC reports project level data on all targeted infrastructure investments which can be viewed in the public facing Interactive Map.
• ISC remains committed to engaging and working with Infrastructure Canada to provide consistent reporting on the Investing in Canada Plan, while ensuring that funding requirements, methodology and program delivery reflect the evolving relationship between the Government of Canada and First Nations, which requires a flexible approach, particularly for reporting related to legacy funds.

Mandate of the Committee

When the Speaker tables a report by the Auditor General in the House of Commons, it is automatically referred to the Public Accounts Committee. The Committee selects the chapters of the report it wants to study and calls the Auditor General and senior public servants from the audited organizations to appear before it to respond to the Office of the Auditor General's findings. The Committee also reviews the federal government's consolidated financial statements – the Public Accounts of Canada – and examines financial and/or accounting shortcomings raised by the Auditor General. At the conclusion of a study, the Committee may present a report to the House of Commons that includes recommendations to the government for improvements in administrative and financial practices and controls of federal departments and agencies.

Government policy, and the extent to which policy objectives are achieved, are generally not examined by the Public Accounts Committee. Instead, the Committee focuses on government administration – the economy and efficiency of program delivery as well as the adherence to government policies, directives and standards. The Committee seeks to hold the government to account for effective public administration and due regard for public funds.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3) of the House of Commons, the mandate of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts is to review and report on:

• The Public Accounts of Canada;
• All reports of the Auditor General of Canada;
• The Office of the Auditor General's Departmental Plan and Departmental Results Report; and,
• Any other matter that the House of Commons shall, from time to time, refer to the Committee.

Committee Members

Bios of the Committee Members

John Williamson (New Brunswick Southwest)
Conservative
Chair

• Elected as MP for New Brunswick Southwest in 2011, he was then defeated in 2015 and re-elected in 2019 & 2021.
• Currently also serves as a Member of the Liaison Committee
• Previously served on many committees, including PACP for a brief time in 2013
• Prior to his election, M. Williamson occupied different positions. He was an editorial writer for the National Post from 1998 to 2001, then joined the Canadian Taxpayers Federation until 2008. In 2009, he was hired by Stephen Harper as director of communications in the PMO.

Jean Yip (Scarborough - Agincourt)
Liberal
First Vice-Chair

• Elected as MP for Scarborough—Agincourt in a by-election on December 11, 2017, and re-elected in 2019 & 2021.
• Has served on Public Accounts (since 2018), as well as Government Operations and Canada-China committees in the past.
• Before her election, Ms. Yip was an insurance underwriter and constituency assistant.

Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné (Terrebonne)
Bloc Québécois
Second vice-chair

• Elected as MP for Terrebonne in the 2021 federal election.
• BQ Critic for Public Accounts; Pandemic Programs; and Federal Economic Development Agencies.
• Worked at the European Investment Bank and at PWC London.
• Return to Quebec in 2017 to pursue a career in the Quebec business world.

Eric Duncan (Stormont-Dundas-South Glengarry)
Conservative
Member

• Elected as MP for Stormont-Dundas-South Glengarry in 2019, and re-elected in 2021.
• Vice-Chair of Procedure and House Affairs Committee
• Has served on COVID-19 Pandemic, Procedure and House Affairs and Library of Parliament committees in the past.
• Prior to his election, Mr. Duncan was one of the youngest elected officials in Canadian History as a municipal Counsellor in North Dundas at the age of 18, and was elected mayor at the age of 22 (from 2010 to 2018).

Jeremy Patzer (Cypress Hills-Grasslands)
Conservative
Member

• Elected as MP for Cypress Hills-Grasslands in 2019, and re-elected in 2021.
• Member of the Standing Committee on International Trade.
• Has served on Natural Resources, Industry, Science and Technology and COVID-19 Pandemic committees in the past.
• Prior to his election, Mr. Patzer worked in the telecommunications industry for ten years.

Phillip Lawrence (Northumberland—Peterborough South)
Conservative
Member

• Elected as MP for Northumberland—Peterborough South in 2019, and re-elected in 2021.
• CPC Critic for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Eastern, Central and Southern Ontario.
• Has served on Public Accounts (since 2020), as well as the Justice committees in the past.
• Prior to his election, Mr. Lawrence received his BA from Brock University in Political Science, he attended Osgoode Hall Law School and the Schulich School of business to obtain his law degree and MBA, and volunteered at the Financial Planning Standards Council.

Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Greisbach)
NDP
Member

• Elected as MP for Edmonton Greisbach in 2021.
• NDP Critic for Treasury Board; Diversity and Inclusion; Youth; Sport; and Post-secondary Education.
• First openly Two-Spirit person and Alberta's only Indigenous Member of Parliament.

Valerie Bradford (Kitchener South – Hespeler)
Liberal
Member

• Elected as MP for Kitchener South – Hespeler in 2021.
• Also sits on the Science and Research committee.
• Prior to her election, Ms. Bradford worked as an economic development professional for the City of Kitchener.

Han Dong (Don Valley North)
Liberal
Member

• Elected as MP for Don Valley North in 2019, and re-elected in 2021.
• Also sits on the Industry and Technology committee.
• Has served on the Ethics, and Human Resources committees in the past.
• Prior to his election, Mr. Dong worked with Toronto-based high-tech company dedicated to building safer communities and served as the leader of the Chinatown Gateway Committee established by Mayor John Tory.

Peter Fragiskatos (London North Centre)
Liberal
Member
Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue

• Elected as MP for London North Centre in 2015, and re-elected in 2019 & 2021.
• Serves as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue.
• Has served on the Finance, Canada-China, Human Resources, Public Safety, and Foreign Affairs committees in the past.
• Served as a member of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP).
• Prior to his election, Mr. Fragiskatos was a political science professor at Huron University College and King's University College, as well as a frequent media commentator on international issues.

Brenda Shanahan (Châteauguay—Lacolle)
Liberal
Member

• Elected as MP for Châteauguay—Lacolle in 2015, and re-elected in 2019 & 2021.
• Has served on Public Accounts (2016-2018), as well as Ethics, Government Operations, and MAID committees in the past.
• Has served as a member of the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians (NSICOP).
• Prior to her election, Ms. Shanahan was a banker and social worker, who has also been involved in a number of organizations such as Amnesty International and the Canadian Federation of University Women.